High Performance Big Block Cadillacs
November 20, 2017, 09:59:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: SMF - Just Installed!
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: does a 500 engine fit in a 94 trans am?  (Read 4140 times)
dbarenburg
C1
*
Posts: 1


« on: August 16, 2010, 08:52:16 AM »

If it does I want to know how to do it,Please!
Logged
~JM~
Shop Keeper
C5
*****
Posts: 1853


« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 10:45:39 AM »

I don't recall too many Camaro or Firebird swaps ever being completed. The Fox-Body Ford is often considered to be the easiest engine bay to drop a Cadillac engine into. The GM G-Body cars are also very popular.

I believe the low hood line on the Camaro's & Firebird's along with the Cadillac's tall deck height & front mounted Distributor just doesn't work out very well.

Below is the only information that I have on this type of swap. It is several pieces of info from different people that was gathered up & then shared with me

Good luck & please let us know if you learn more.
~JM~


This is what I've found/been told so far

e-mailed cad company they replied
We should have everything to put the engine in, except for the headers. Those will have to be built in the car. Though Iíve been told you may be able to use stock non-Eldorado manifolds. Youíll also need a rear sump oil pan, special chassis oil pump, and universal motor mount kit.

For the standard trans, you will need a transmission (of course), plus a Caddy Flywheel and flywheel bolts, Caddy pilot bushing, and a tranny adapter

It has been done (a lot). It is not easy (a lot of projects started and never finished out there). I have not done this swap myself yet, but have lots of feedback from guys who have. Here is what I have gathered:

The hardest part is the exhaust. Ever tried to run true duals in a 3rd gen? They don't fit so well. The best header setup I've seen is a set a guy made that turns out to the side at the collector, and he ran the exhaust outside the 'frame' channels. Due to the spark plug angle (pointing mostly upwards between the exposed exhaust ports) it is very difficult to design a header that doesn't cause spark plug problems. Due to the bolt location, especially in tight chassis, it is very difficult to build a header without header bolt access issues.

Some stock hoods (especially on Firebirds) are reported to have slightly more arch, and a stock hood can clear with a stock Caddy intake and no AC compressor. I'm not sure I buy that bit. Every one I've seen had a cowl hood, but some of those guys told me they started with a flat hood and a stock intake. Hmmm.

Tranny adapters - there are good ones and then there is cheap junk. If it has nuts welded onto sheet metal, well...
I don't think I've seen anything but a 700R4 in a 3rd gen car (unless it was row-ur-own). Anything less than a TH400 and you are taking a chance. If your Caddy is below 400 Ft-Lbs at launch RPM, there is something drastically wrong with it.

The car...
No stock 3rd gen body will survive with a stock Caddy engine for long. Sub-frame connectors are not optional. Bolt in connectors might not be enough. Using a roll cage to further tie the front and rear of the car together and add stiffness is recommended, especially if you are upping the power output of the Caddy. That car was designed for 4 cylinders, V-6's, and completely neutered small blocks.

Currie, etc, will sell you a 4 link/ 9 inch kit. A good chassis shop will sell you nice weld in connector and cage kits, and structural TH400 tranny cross-members. Sure, you can beef up the 700R4 and the 10 bolt, but by the time you get them to stay together, you've usually spent almost as much as stepping up to the bulletproof stuff. A TH400 is actually much cheaper, because a stock TH400 will handle a really stout 500. A $3500 700R4 might survive for a while. If you have the skills and equipment to narrow the axle housing yourself, a stock 9" Ford with an $800 investment in housing ends, aftermarket carrier and gears, and aftermarket axles made to length, will hold up to way more abuse than a 10 bolt with an $800 investment in upgrades.

The 4 link conversion can be done for under $200 if you have skills and equipment, or can cost up-wards of $1200 installed by a pro. However, the huge improvement in traction alone is worth the investment.

My '91 Firebird project got sidetracked by a convertible (sold the TA shell to buy a roof), but my plan was to start with the engine swap using a tranny adapter, and do the structural upgrades, then upgrade the rest of the drive-line as things broke. Keep in mind that the stress on the tranny and diff are limited by traction - on stock size tires, they might last for quite a while.


Logged

PS. You don't have enough cam. Grin

...Summit has a kit for $99.... Shocked
dave brode
C5
*****
Posts: 1074


Best of 11.66, 113.96, 1.59 sixty


« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 04:10:18 PM »

Summit has a kit for $99.

JK Grin
Logged

3960 lb '71 C-10. 11.7-1 CR 514". PEP I beam rods floating MTS 18cc dish Probes, Elgin solid cam, home ported heads, MTS 2.19/1.84", Potter/Probe shaft rockers, edel 2115, 4781 850. Switch-pitch TH400, 12" 1800/3200 Tri-Shield convertor, 4.30 gears. Best so far of 11.66, 114.8 mph and 1.59 sixty
~JM~
Shop Keeper
C5
*****
Posts: 1853


« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 10:03:33 AM »

Summit has a kit for $99.

JK Grin

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Far out! I have a new Sig....

This is one of the most common swap questions over the years. As much interest as has been expressed in the past & yet I have never seen one that was completed. It must really be a poor match.

Someone needs to do one & document the build for prosperity.

Good luck
~JM~
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 10:09:52 AM by ~JM~ » Logged

PS. You don't have enough cam. Grin

...Summit has a kit for $99.... Shocked
dave brode
C5
*****
Posts: 1074


Best of 11.66, 113.96, 1.59 sixty


« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 04:28:18 PM »

LOL.

Reminds me: I was building my truck.....A fellow was visiting while I was hacking up to old underhood wiring harnesses. He asked: "why don't you just buy a new harness?" I said that I called Summit, and they were out of caddy engine swap into chevy truck harnesses.

Joking aside:

If a fellow could find a 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird with a BBChev in it, it would give an idea of how tough a caddy would be. Realize that the caddy is longer, and wider than a BBC, but it would give some idea imo.

Anything is possible, but I doubt that I would attempt it w/o doing a tube chassis type front end. Imo, with the stock front end, it would be tough.

Dave
Logged

3960 lb '71 C-10. 11.7-1 CR 514". PEP I beam rods floating MTS 18cc dish Probes, Elgin solid cam, home ported heads, MTS 2.19/1.84", Potter/Probe shaft rockers, edel 2115, 4781 850. Switch-pitch TH400, 12" 1800/3200 Tri-Shield convertor, 4.30 gears. Best so far of 11.66, 114.8 mph and 1.59 sixty
Cadmaro
C1
*
Posts: 8


« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 03:46:44 PM »

I have a caddy motor in my 85 camaro. i was 17 when i did the swap so it cant be that hard. my fab skills where very poor at the time ( think booty fabbed) but it ran and drove and was faster than greased snot on a door knob for a couple weeks when the rear end blew up. now its been sitting for a couple years and i keep swearing to myself that i wont put it back together until everythin on the car is capable of 10s.  and btw everything fits under the stock hood!   
so to answer your question yes it can be done. but you have to be willing to cut and weld and bend and smack ALOT of stuff to wedge it in there
Logged
SSCaddyman
C1
*
Posts: 1


90 Camaro 509, 68 Coupe Calais, 58 Series 62


« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 09:57:39 AM »

hi, I'm new to this forum, but thought I could chip in a little.  I have a 90 Camaro with a 500 and a Deville TH400 behind it.  Its not as hard as you think to fit.  Exhaust is tight.  I ran DeVille manifolds, but am currently looking at the Sanderson CAD600 headers (anyone tried those?)  they look like they should fit.  I used the stock eldorado oil pan, stock DeVille engine mounts with 3/8" plates bolted to the crossmember, coming forward to the engine mounts. The only body mods I had to do was lightly pry back the firewall for access to the last monifold bolt on the drivers side.  I did run exhaust out to the sides, but that is being changed soon, to a single 4" hopefully. 
 As far as fitting one in a 4th gen, not sure, I know they are considerably tighter in the engine bay, and its more of a hassle to work with because the engine comes out the bottom.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!