High Performance Big Block Cadillacs
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Author Topic: 1990 Hatchback Mustang  (Read 16804 times)
Maddog
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« on: November 27, 2007, 06:47:34 PM »

1990 hatchback Mustang, 10 point chromoly cage, full suspension mods, 483CI Cadilac with a 425 balanced and lightened crankshaft in a Cadillac 5200 series block. Electromotive Tec-2 fuel injection and ignition control, Modified Bulldog intake, for the moment 120cc oversized 2.11 1.77 valves, camtechniques.com camshaft with a .600 lift, crower rods, Wiseco pistons, etc.

Maddog
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Cad-T-Bird 500
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 10:23:50 PM »

Welcome Maddog.

TED
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caddycarlo
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2007, 07:06:22 AM »

1990 hatchback Mustang, 10 point chromoly cage, full suspension mods, 483CI Cadilac with a 425 balanced and lightened crankshaft in a Cadillac 5200 series block. Electromotive Tec-2 fuel injection and ignition control, Modified Bulldog intake, for the moment 120cc oversized 2.11 1.77 valves, camtechniques.com camshaft with a .600 lift, crower rods, Wiseco pistons, etc.

Maddog

and it is very very red  Cool Cool Cool
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C.I.D. Vicious
C3
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Posts: 139



« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 01:55:32 PM »

Glad to see someone using a 425 crank and posting about it.

How you like the way it rev's?
Few would belive me when I would tell them.
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"If this CSOB crowd would quietly go find a hole and hide themselves in, the engine might not be setback 20 years from the rest of the American made V8's."  -Juan Zapata
Maddog
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 02:39:55 PM »

Al--just getting the car to the track, but its smooth as glass and revs, so far, to 6400 like its nothing. I am trying to keep it to 6000 though for longevity. What was your experience with them? Regards, Charles
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C.I.D. Vicious
C3
***
Posts: 139



« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 03:53:27 PM »

Md,

 Each time I built one, I tried to make the rotating parts lighter. Each one seemed to rev easier. To borrow a line I saw, W/O data that just makes me another guy with an opinion. Untill you actually drive one.
 Most of these engines had MT20 range cams in them. 250-260ish @.050. .575- .580 lift.
Kept rpms to 5800 max. Had zero trouble @ those levels.  The big thing to me was the driveablity difference to the engine.  These engines actually got me to think about the Cad in a whole new way. BBBUUUUUUZZZZZZZ. I hope more guys try em, and post about it.
 One of these engines with a 3:50-3:73 rear gear, in a light car, would be the shiznitz on the street. Especially if you suspened it as a corner carver. WOW!! I would also hook it to as light rotating weight drive train as I could. Alum drive shaft, etc.
  BTW nice car. I always vowed I'd build one once I saw LUXLX. However it's not to be for me. I ended up with another G-body to build.
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"If this CSOB crowd would quietly go find a hole and hide themselves in, the engine might not be setback 20 years from the rest of the American made V8's."  -Juan Zapata
Maddog
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 04:22:39 PM »

Every time someone mentions it on the other board, guys are standing in line to knock it and say "why in the hell would you build that when a 472 crank is so much stronger"? Well that pissed me off so i buiilt one. Now i will grant you that crower rods and wiseco pistons and a .5 gram or better balnce job with two slugs of mallory aint cheap---but hell, i wanted to give it a run. We will soon see what she has in the next week or so now that i have confidence in the chassis. If I like what i see, i am going to bolt on the small chamber heads and see what happens. The cam is a .600 lift camtechniques.com piece with solids. Thanks for your reply, charles (who is still waiting to hear about all the broken 425 crankshafts....)
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Maddog
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 07:19:57 AM »

Here is a link to my photo albums. There are at least three with pictures of the Nutty Buddy Mustnag, including trans crossmember, and engine room. I will try and get some of the rearend and other suspension pieces. Click on the main album after you view this one and it should let you look at anything you like....

Maddog

http://picasaweb.google.com/airboat3/NuttyBuddy483ciCadillacPoweredMustangFoxBody
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 08:39:37 AM by Maddog » Logged
caddycarlo
Guest
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 08:23:17 AM »

your link is asking for a log in with password .......


My view on the 425 vs 472 crank thing is cost ...you yourself said that you had to a 1 slug of mallory to balance and this cost is added to the total build .......... So is this extra cost gaining you enough to justify it ?  with most builds it is hard to  say if it revs better becouse its weight is lower or just becouse it is making a far amount of hp ......... You would have to balance both cranks and swap them into the same engine to find out and I am not sure anyone has done that ........... I do know in the sbc world I have seen my std weight engines stand toe to toe with lightweight ones and not seen that they had a performance gain ....... The nascar boys take all the weight out they can but they are at 9000 rpm almost all the time and if I remember right forse goes up with the root squared so I think rpm plays a lot in how much weight will help ......................

On the strength side a lot has to do with how nice you are to the engine ........ 6000 launchs with a transbrake is hard on cranks and so is timing way off in right field ..... or stutter box rev limiters ....... or blower belts that are to tite ........... I other words it is sometimes hard to say why it will not hold up for one person and then do fine for another when we have so little info .........



I was just sitting here thinking about if we have seen broken cranks first person ...............   the only ones I have seen was flash had some 500 crank parts that he said were offset ground to much and these were broke at the rod journal .......... But I cannot remember anyone posting I need a new crank I broke this one ........ it is always well so and so broke one ........second or third hand ............

it makes you kind of wonder if it is a real problem or one of those things that people think should be a problem ..........
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Maddog
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2008, 08:49:28 AM »

Scott: I fixed the link--sorry bout that. I asked this exact crank question on cadillacpower about a year ago----Only 425 crank failures were bad bearing damage to SOMEONE else's crank from overrevving it and "turning the crank into a jump rope". I just dont believe that. And JJO on the other board has a bearing problem, but says it was from a #1 cam bearing being out of place and dumping all the oil before it fed the main. I have never seen a broken 425 crank. I personally broke a 500 crank 12 years ago which has been well documented as being a stock rod failure which literally destroyed the engine. I reused the intake manifold----nothing else. It was an incredible explosion on the Maddog under max load. The pan, block, crank, cam, heads, etc etc were destroyed. Al Betker is getting me his actual data on the 425 cranks from his streetsweeper engines that he sold for years without a problem. I need these facts, as opposed to hyperbole,  to rebut some  folks who have zero data elsewhere on the net. He always recommended that they turn no more than 5800rpm's.
Back to expense---everyone forgets than Stan Mizell sells these 425 cranks, turned, for 65 dollars. In my world, thats a helluva deal even if i go back through it. Plus I like to push the envelope. The next engine for the Nutty Buddy, which is just waiting on some 7 inch bushed rods when i can find and/or afford them, is a 500 crank that will be properly setup, but not lightened. Course it will have 513ci too so it wont be a fair comparision. Thanks for your always thoughtful post.

Maddog
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Maddog
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2008, 09:18:13 AM »

Since someone just questioned my facts, here is one of the always available 65 dollar turned 425 cranks from Stan Mizell in Jacksonville. Shipping is 60 bucks, but thats not bad for a 72lbs item.

Maddog

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/77-79-CADILLAC-425-ENGINE-CRANKSHAFT_W0QQitemZ130080550353QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130080550353
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smalltruckbigcid
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2008, 09:44:15 AM »

Damn it Maddog I don't need a 425 crank. I may want, but don't need. In all reality I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on doing my CSOB 472 sorta stroker.

The specs are simple. 472 crank offset ground .030 and resized to mopar journals. The bore is 4.360 using 440bbm forged TRW pistons hung on mopar 440 rods (LY series- supposed to be six pack and motor home  rods) So that gives me a 4.360 bore and 4.090 stroke with forged flat top pistons. The piston and rod combo is lighter than the stock caddy, I haven't measured it yet but thats just by my arm scale. The crank will cost me about $400 with bearings. It should end up at 488 inches and around 8.5 compression with big heads.

I forgot to mention that I have $186.00 in the pistons and rods Grin
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Cad-T-Bird 500
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2008, 10:43:02 AM »

How do they sell the crank for $65?  The last crank I had turned was $70. 

They must be wholesaling them just to get rid of them. I bet you don't see them in the future at this price.

TED
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ST Dog
C4
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Posts: 499



« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 11:18:49 AM »

Since someone just questioned my facts, here is one of the always available 65 dollar turned 425 cranks from Stan Mizell in Jacksonville.

Charles, I wasn't "questioning" your facts. I was seriously interested. I had not seen them that cheap, but I had seen them around $220 with bearings, including a listing from Maddog Racing(Fast Engine Parts).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220193643395
Cheaper shipping (to me anyway is $36).
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Maddog
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 11:49:02 AM »

Wasnt you st----someone else in a pm. The crank in the nutty buddy was bought from mizell a year ago for 65 bucks.....they just blow them out.....

Maddog
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