High Performance Big Block Cadillacs
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Author Topic: Researching 500 into C4 Corvette swap; request info and pics  (Read 16480 times)
~JM~
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C5
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Posts: 1853


« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 11:03:06 AM »

Now I see. Thanks.
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PS. You don't have enough cam. Grin

...Summit has a kit for $99.... Shocked
CadVetteStang
Eldorado Autocross Racer
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Posts: 52


"BattleCar Cadillactica" at home in the pylons


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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2009, 11:29:24 AM »

Someone showed me that Accel and others make a TPI to carb manifold adaptor already. This is the one accel makes: And this is what I would do ot the Edelbrock intake to hook it to the Vette computer. Did I mention that software can be downloaded to tune the 86 and up TPIs with a laptop? This may be a low buck Caddy mod in other swaps too.


* Accel TPI elbow adaptor.JPG (5.94 KB, 317x197 - viewed 315 times.)

* ThrottleBodyAdaptor with rail on intake.jpg (30.52 KB, 500x425 - viewed 516 times.)
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“Battlecar Cadillactica” 70 Eldo that raced SCCA autocross in 1985 & 1986

“The Cadinator” 82 Eldo w/ TBI injected 472 and autocross handling pkg.

“CadVetteStang” 72 Fastback Mustang w/ Caddy 500; awaiting a cage & C4 Vette front suspension when the guy storing it- sold it w/o permission
CadVetteStang
Eldorado Autocross Racer
C2
**
Posts: 52


"BattleCar Cadillactica" at home in the pylons


WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 10:41:03 AM »

Here is the look and fit of a big block Chevy in the C4 Vette. This car uses stock 700-R4, the economy 2.59 gears, makes less than 500 lbs. torque, and has embarrassed several Mustang owners at stoplight drags.   







The one that got away:

I just missed this 86 Vette with bad head gasket that sold for $2,175 locally on ebay.




The money is just not right at the moment.

The good news is that I am helping a friend negotiate a deal on seven 66-68 Mustangs; if I can get the price low enough he will give me his 73 Mach 1 project car with a 72 front cap and 460 engine. I’ve had my eye on that car since my 72 came up missing last year; so I may end up building another Caddy 500 powered Mustang before I get my first Vette.

On the C4 Corvette side, another friend is looking for a good deal on a 500 to put in his 85 Vette; so I won’t be the first, but someone’s gonna do it soon.

Cody
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“Battlecar Cadillactica” 70 Eldo that raced SCCA autocross in 1985 & 1986

“The Cadinator” 82 Eldo w/ TBI injected 472 and autocross handling pkg.

“CadVetteStang” 72 Fastback Mustang w/ Caddy 500; awaiting a cage & C4 Vette front suspension when the guy storing it- sold it w/o permission
~JM~
Shop Keeper
C5
*****
Posts: 1853


« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 12:07:36 PM »

...The money is just not right at the moment....  

Patience Grasshopper... Remember that timing is everything. No sense jumping into a project until you have a high likely hood of completing it. There are already far to many half-cocked hacks out there, that take a perfectly good car & completely ruin it with a poorly planned, half-fast, swap attempt.

...so I may end up building another Caddy 500 powered Mustang before I get my first Vette....

Cody  

May I counsel you against this idea? You probably know as well as I, how few of these cars still exist. To the best of my knowledge, this Mustang body style was the most difficult Mustang body for Ford to manufacture. The '71 to '73 Mustangs rarely receive the appreciation that they truly deserve. That has been changing over the last few years with clean examples in the $14K to $20K range. I believe that even to this day, they are the most roomy & comfortable road car of all the Mustangs. Please keep it as true to its roots as you can. A classic Mustang with an all Ford drive-train, will always have much more value than other equivalent cars. A Mustang that has been bastardized with some other brand of power-train has very little, to no value at all.

This car may be your 'Golden Opportunity' to get into something at the right price & build it carefully during this poor economy, strictly as an investment.

Do not become attached to the car & do not build it the way YOU want. Build it the way that well-heeled BUYERS want. Once the economy recovers, sell the car for a tidy little profit & have the money you need to build "Your" car the way that you want.

Something for you to consider.  Cool
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PS. You don't have enough cam. Grin

...Summit has a kit for $99.... Shocked
CadVetteStang
Eldorado Autocross Racer
C2
**
Posts: 52


"BattleCar Cadillactica" at home in the pylons


WWW
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 05:21:38 AM »


...so I may end up building another Caddy 500 powered Mustang before I get my first Vette....

Cody  

May I counsel you against this idea? You probably know as well as I, how few of these cars still exist. To the best of my knowledge, this Mustang body style was the most difficult Mustang body for Ford to manufacture. The '71 to '73 Mustangs rarely receive the appreciation that they truly deserve. That has been changing over the last few years with clean examples in the $14K to $20K range. I believe that even to this day, they are the most roomy & comfortable road car of all the Mustangs. Please keep it as true to its roots as you can. A classic Mustang with an all Ford drive-train, will always have much more value than other equivalent cars. A Mustang that has been bastardized with some other brand of power-train has very little, to no value at all.

My first 72 Mustang with swapped in Caddy 500 was an all bolt in swap requiring only the addition of mounting holes for the brackets that were manufactured. It turned out that IF I ever wanted to sell the car, I could pull my upgrade out of it and drop a 302 or 351 back in.  When I realized that I never wanted to sell the car, the all bolt in swap idea was scrapped when I started looking at C4 Corvette front suspensions for the handling.  That car was originally rescued from a salvage yard, anyway, and was a fastback that had been wrecked and repaired twice – not a true untouched Mach 1.

Since that car’s disappearance I have been looking for its replacement. If it turned out that I acquired a rare, all original car, then my plan would have been to restore an all Ford investment and sell it for profit; however, there is a reason this friend is thinking about “giving” me this car: It is made up from (what I can tell) at least four different Mustangs of all three years. It has a 72 model front cap made from mis-matched fenders (one purple rubber bumper fender, and one white steel bumper fender); a fastback gage package and grill (what is left of it) even though the title says it is a “Q” code 73 Mach 1. The whole interior is absolutely trashed and full of spare parts; there is an incomplete disc brake conversion on the 9” rear end. The 460 (and probably trans) are non original and non-running. It has non-original wheels, no front bumper, and the only exhaust system consists of two straight pipes that come off of the 460’s exhaust manifolds and drag the ground behind the car. The whole bottom of the car is very rusty (however the floor pans are not rusted all the way through yet). The car is restorable, however, I would hesitate to sell it as a “Q” code Mach 1 because the unibody may have been from a 73 disc brake fastback and the VIN and title may have come from one of the donor cars that was used in putting this multi-year car together. I think it’s the perfect candidate to be used as a race car or as a non- original custom.

Besides, even Mustangs of the 60s get upgraded with Jag rear ends (or Eldorado calipers on 9” rear ends), full size GM front calipers, sheet metal from Taiwan, aftermarket gages, shifters, A- arms, rotors, interiors, and have non-original engines installed. It is VERY hard to find a restored Mustang that is truly all Ford. The concept of “resto-mod” is popular among the vintage Mustang crowd; people who have always a Mustang (and who never intend to sell them) only have to worry about “Ford” or “original” if they want to compete in restoration shows. Those who want to compete on the race track, do what ever the rules allow to make the car faster.

So what if a mix-matched, made up car, that was put together from at least three donor salvage cars gets a Cadillac engine (which was designed by the same man who designed the 460). What about the Corvette suspension? The 71-73 Mustang was designed as a Trans Am racer by Larry Shinoda who also designed the 63 Corvette Sting Ray.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Shinoda

Because of the external similarities between the 500 and the 460, and because the 71 – 73 was designed for the 429/460 engine family, the 500 fit like a factory option. The exhaust manifolds rested in the shock tower dimples with enough room to get my hand in the space between them. Plenty of room for headers.

The “Cad-Vette-Stang” concept is connected by design even though it is manufactured by different host companies. Funny side note: The Mustang was actually named after the P-51 Mustang; the original P-51 Mustang had an Allison engine which used a Cadillac crankshaft. So, the plane that this car was actually named after had – at its beginning – Cadillac power, and the P-51 Mustang’s nickname was “Cadillac of the sky”. (the Rolls engine came later) I planned a P-51 paint scheme for my car and a history lesson to go with it to shows.

To me, a Caddy powered 72 Mach 1 that corners and stops on Vette suspension & brakes, is an amalgamation of the best engine, best looking body, and best handling suspension. It is a blend of my three favorite cars (a way that I can drive all three at one time). I really don’t care about its re-sale value or what Ford purists will think when they see what’s under the hood. It will be my car, of my engineering, built my way, according to my preferences, and built for me – and me alone. It will be a Mustang built to beat other Mustangs while running with the best of the Vettes (and while getting good fuel mileage).

OOPS; I kind of got off track and drifted away from the Caddy powered Vette research – LOL

« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 05:47:33 AM by CadVetteStang » Logged

“Battlecar Cadillactica” 70 Eldo that raced SCCA autocross in 1985 & 1986

“The Cadinator” 82 Eldo w/ TBI injected 472 and autocross handling pkg.

“CadVetteStang” 72 Fastback Mustang w/ Caddy 500; awaiting a cage & C4 Vette front suspension when the guy storing it- sold it w/o permission
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